Which is better in competitive: Calyrex-Shadow, or Calyrex-Ice?

Question

I know that Calyrex has a strong signature move, but several 4 times weaknesses. It makes up for that with it's speed. I don't know much about Calyrex-Ice, other than that it's Psychic and Ice type. So which is better in competitive? By this I mean which Pokemon has the better stats, counters to weakness, better moveset, Natures that work well on the Pokemon, roles, etc. It would also be good if a moveset is provided.
Thanks.

Comments

Calyrex-Ice, it has a decent movepool and a stronger signature move than Calyrex-Shadow, although being slow, using Trick Room, it will most likely outspeed all other Pokemons on the the field, Calyrex also has Megahorn for cover against Dark types, Stomping Tantrum for Fire and Rock types, Crunch or Throat Chop for Ghost type cover which is amazing.

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But it requires Trick Room support; Calyrex-Shadow can just come onto the battlefield and start sweeping

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calyrex shadow has a very spammable ghost move and nasty plot and special moxie and psyshock to beat special walls and dark coverage in draining kiss and has basically no counters under certain circumstances

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Ghost also has the benefit of no Stealth Rock Weakness.

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What format/rules are you asking about?

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All formats with Calyrex-Ice and Calyrex-Shadow.

Answer 1

This really depends on the settings of your team:
Calyrex-Ice is an absolutely massive Dynamaxer in Trick Room, alongside a weakness policy which can be Proc by anything of your choice (Mach punch/Bullet punch), you can essentially K.O nearly everything in the Metagame that isn't resistant to it:
+2 252+ Atk Glastrier Max Hailstorm vs. 168 HP / 172 Def Cresselia: 216-255 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
We're talking about Cresselia! The Bulkiest mon in the entire world!

It even has access to several coverage moves such as Close Combat and High Horsepower, making this Pokemon absolutely mindblowing.

Not to mention its superior ability As One, allowing it to become a hindrance to berry users such as Snorlax and Incineroar and raise its attack by one stage in doubles, which is essentially Moxie, making that colossal base attack rise over 200!

And as you said, Glacial Lance has a base power of whopping 130, which beats most Dynamax moves even! Most moves of this multitude have a drawback and since it doesn't have one, it only makes Ice-Rider even more rigged.

A moveset I might opt for: (This is really basic, comment if you actually want me to make a detailed one)

Calyrex-Ice @ Weakness Policy
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 148 HP / 220 Atk / 140 SpD
Brave Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Close Combat
- High Horsepower
- Protect

EVs ensure no O.K from Specs Ghost-Rider and if you can score a K.O with Max-Knuckle, it will essentially be a +2 boost on top of Weakness policy! (If it activates). The attack investment might not be needed, but as said, this set is extremely simple and not a lot of thought was put into it...

Calyrex-Ghost I feel like is a specific counter to Calyrex-Ice. Calyrex-Ghost will be a great revenge killer in the metagame as it has access to base 150 speed, outspeeding Dragapult but as always, still slower than Regieleki. It does not have as outstanding bulk as Ice-Rider. However, its ability to almost always go first is impressive, not to mention that 100 base HP is extremely viable. Its Signature move is a slight downgrade from Ice-Rider's. However, 120 Base Power Ghost-Move is still unprecedented.

As for Shadow Rider, it does not have access to that many coverage moves, the only ones I am seeing are Stomping Tantrum and Crunch which are both physical moves.

Another potential option is if you use Shadow-Rider as a support mon since it has access to Will-o-Wisp and Encore, allowing it to punish physical attackers and any mon who decides to protect and not switch out the following turn.

Shadow-Rider is an extremely menacing Revenge Killer/Support mon nonetheless, and is still an extremely superior legendary as it outspeed most mons in the metagame. A spread I might try would be:

Calyrex-Shadow @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Expanding Force
- Will-O-Wisp
- Encore

The item is really changeable, just that it isn't too frail to run focus sash and neither is it bulky enough to run life orb or else it will be worn down in 2 hits. You can potentially use it alongside Tapu Lele for the Expanding Force spam or Indeedee for redirection, allowing Shadow-Rider to survive for longer.

You could also try running Nasty Plot Spectrier + Dynamax.

These are only speculations, and are subject to change. You can ask any queries you like.

PS: They are not allowed in ranked-battles! But Glastrier and Spectrier are allowed, and their roles are extremely similar to the ones that I mentioned above.

Comments

Thanks for helping :)

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"Not to mention its superior ability As One, allowing it to drain PP in singles"
As One is a combination of Unnerve and Grim/Chilling Neigh. You mixed up Unnerve with pressure. Pressure drains PP, but Unnerve makes the opposing Pokémon unable to eat berries

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not many coverage moves? You mean it doesn’t have giga drain and pollen puff?

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But Giga Drain and Pollen Puff can counter what - a Gastrodon or a Lele?
Glastrier has a massive amount of coverage...
And also, yeah, I mixed up unnerve and pressure. (oops) gonna edit that

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Necrozma-Dusk-Mane takes far better use of Trick Room with Weakness Policy. Plus it gets Draining kiss, the shadow one. It helps since allowing it to OHKO Yveltal. And also, why Encore and Will-o-Wisp? Life Orb is much better, and Substitute helps against Sucker Punch.

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I feel like because I am a VGC player, not many people opt for substitute in doubles. Rather, getting off WoW can be crucial in shutting down physical attackers and you can also harshly punish, say for example, Tapu Fini who has decided to protect on that turn which you have read, K.Od the opposing Pokemon but you and your teammate are low and within k.o range from Fini's muddy water, then you encore so they use protect again and it gives you three whole turns. Spectrier can do this extremely efficiently with its superior speed. However, in singles, I'm assuming substitute against sucker punch is nice because it essentially gives Spectrier a free turn afterwards. I also did say that the spread was subject to change though.

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Why Serious Nature on Calyrex-Shadow? Timid or Modest would be better.

Answer 2

In my opinion, Calyrex-Shadow is superior to Calyrex-Ice competitively, though like xx_Mythical said, it mostly depends on the kind of team you are running it on.

I'll start with Calyrex-Ice:

Calyrex-Ice is an amazing Pokemon under Trick Room, outslowing most Pokemon. It also has an amazing base 165 attack, great 100/150/130 bulk, and a great offensive ability in As One (which is basically Chilling Neigh + Unnerve). It also has arguably the best physical Ice move in the game in Glacial Lance, a 130 BP physical Ice move with no drawbacks outside of its relatively low PP. On top of that, Calyrex-IR have good coverage with Close Combat, High Horsepower, and Crunch, among others. Its lack of a reliable Psychic STAB is negligible because of how powerful it is (and because Psychic is usually a subpar offensive type anyway). Finally, Ice is one of the very best offensive types in the game (imo it's second only to Fire), and it have Swords Dance to boost its attack further (not to mention its bulk letting it use Weakness Policy effectively)

Here’s a set that will be amazing under Trick Room:

Calyrex-Ice @ Weakness Policy
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Substitute / Swords Dance
- Glacial Lance
- High Horsepower
- Trick Room / Close Combat / Crunch

Under Trick Room, this thing is an absolute menace. It underspeeds just about everything, and most Pokemon that actually can hit it before getting completely destroyed (Yveltal, Marshadow, etc) often are completely helpless as they can’t do anything significant without super effective moves, but super effective moves activates Glastrier’s Weakness Policy. Not to mention the power of this thing while Dynamaxed. Max Knuckle + As One (Chilling Neigh) lets it snowball extremely quickly.

On the other hand, Calyrex-IR is extremely reliant on Trick Room and often becomes a liability outside of it. Many Pokemon can hit it hard (like Calyrex-SR or Zacian-Crowned), and they don’t have to worry about being hit first outside of Trick Room. This is compounded by the fact that its typing, Psychic/Ice, is absolutely horrendous, giving it a Stealth Rock weakness and a weakness to many common types like Dark and Fire. It is also setup fodder for Pokemon like Trick Room Dusk Mane Necrozma, which carries its own Weakness Policy to take advantage of High Horsepower. Because of this, Calyrex-IR is seldom used outside of Trick Room teams (and maybe defensive teams due to its good bulk while still having a good damage output). True, it is amazing under Trick Room, but otherwise it is not that great and can even become a liability.

Calyrex-Shadow, on the other hand, is a better Pokemon in… just about every other kind of team besides semi-stall or stall. In my opinion, while Calyrex-Ice is good, Calyrex-Shadow is absolutely phenomenal. I’ll explain why:

The ideal stat spread of an offensive Pokemon has an amazing attacking stat (obviously), a great speed stat, and good bulk (so… not Deoxys). With that in mind, it is logical to give the other attacking stat a lower number so more points can go to your attacking stat of choice. In addition, that Pokemon should have a good offensive typing and a good offensive ability. And… Calyrex-Shadow has just that - 165 SpA is amazing no matter which way you slice it, 150 Spe is incredibly fast, and 100/80/100 bulk is workable (but not too good, or it will be too broken). On top of that, Calyrex-SR’s ability, As One, has multiple purposes. The Unnerve part of it prevents the defender from eating a berry to heal or soften up a blow. But the most important is the Grim Neigh part, which boosts its SpA whenever it gets a kill. This, combined with Calyrex-SR’s blazing speed, allows it to snowball out of control quickly and easily. Finally, Ghost is one of the best types for neutral coverage, as it is only resisted by Dark and neglected by Normal (which, in Ubers, is not very common). It is also worth noting that the other Pokemon that have these traits, Zacian-Crowned, cannot hold an item and cannot Dynamax, yet it is still a top Pokemon. It even has the coverage it needs, between Draining Kiss, Leaf Storm/Energy Ball, Psychic/Psyshock, and Pollen Puff. And all that goes without mentioning Astral Barrage, a 120 BP special Ghost-type move that, again, has no drawbacks besides its low PP. It also has access to Nasty Plot, which allows it to function as a wallbreaker as well as a sweeper.

Calyrex-Shadow @ Life Orb
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock
- Draining Kiss / Leaf Storm / Pollen Puff

Arguably the best sweeper in the game. Astral Barrage is a nuke even if it’s not boosted at all, and Psyshock destroys any Blissey or Toxapex that attempts to wall this. When Dynamaxed, Psyshock is a key move as it becomes Max Mindstorm, which summons Psychic Terrain, which prevents Sucker Punch from being used, which is arguably Calyrex-Shadow’s biggest weakness (besides Shadow Sneak of course). For the final move, Draining Kiss can be used for a better matchup against Yveltal and have access to recovery (boosted Draining Kiss recovers a massive amount of HP against Dragon-types). On the other hand, Leaf Storm can be used for problematic Pokemon like Tyranitar (which easily sponges Draining Kiss thanks to its massive special bulk under sandstorm). Finally, Pollen Puff can be used for other Dark-types as well as some Grass-types, though it is not really recommended. Calyrex-SR often can sweep a team by just spamming attacking moves without even trying to Nasty Plot, as its phenomenal ability allows it to catch up easily. Its mere presence basically mandates Yveltal on just about any team, and it is nigh-unstoppable once Yveltal and Ditto are removed. There is actually talk of a suspect test about Calyrex-SR because of how good this Pokemon is.

Well, every Pokemon has weaknesses, and Calyrex-SR is no exception. However, counterplay is extremely limited, and I will not be surprised if this gets suspected. Calyrex-SR’s biggest weakness is arguably its lackluster bulk by Uber standards, as well as extreme weaknesses in Ghost and Dark. However, even with these things, counterplay is still not easy to come by. Defensive counterplay has SpD Yveltal, SpD Mandibuzz, and… well… that’s it. That’s seriously it. However, Tyranitar works for variants without Leaf Storm, and Grimmsnarl can take on non-Leaf Storm variants thanks to Prankster Light Screen. Even Yveltal is shaky at best because Sucker Punch fails with Psychic Terrain up. Offensive counterplay is a bit easier, with Pokemon like Giratina-O and Marshadow KO-ing it with Shadow Sneak, as well as faster Pokemon taking advantage of its bulk. However, with Calyrex-SR’s amazing speed not many (viable) Pokemon outspeed it, even if they put on a Choice Scarf.

In conclusion, I feel like Calyrex-Shadow is better than Calyrex-Ice. Sure, Calyrex-Ice is good, but Calyrex-Shadow is phenomenal.