Which Heracross would do better Competetively?

Question

I was just wondering if taking advantage of Mega Heracross's Skill Link would be more/less effective than just using regular attacks. Here is what I came up with:

Skilled In Linking (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust
- Rock Blast
- Fury Attack

OR

Heavy Hitter (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Chip Away
- Rock Blast

Comments

When you're not weak to poison type attacks, a poison type Pokemon can still threaten you. Let's say you're trying to attack a Toxapex.
252+ Atk Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 60-75 (19.7 - 24.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Heracross Arm Thrust (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 40-45 (13.1 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 58-69 (19 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 58-69 (19 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 85-100 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
None of these attacks can take out even a third of Toxapex's HP, and the Toxapex can comfortably alternate between recover and scald until you get scalded to death. However, if your Heracross knew earthquake...
252+ Atk Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 130-154 (42.7 - 50.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
then you can defeat that Toxapex much more quickly.

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@ShadySceptile the moves you run should not just be based on your Pokémon’s defensive weaknesses, but its offensive ones as well. Heracross is completely denied by Poison types because its STAB moves are both resisted by them. Running Earthquake makes it more viable offensively.
And so that you’re aware, using only favourites sort of contradicts the point of competitive play. If you’re going to start a discussion about what’s ‘better’, then it doesn’t make much sense to people if you knowingly use a Pokémon that is worse than the best option. I would not blame someone for pointing this out — but each to their own.

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Alright, I hear you. Thanks for the suggestions.

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@sumwun how do you get all your calculations?

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https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/

Answer 1

The best Heracross set would be a combination of the two. Similarly to the Blaze person's answer, I'm going to compare each of the moves you came up with.

Pin missile or megahorn?
Megahorn has 120 base power and 85% accuracy. Pin missile has 25 base power and 95% accuracy. Because pin missile is guaranteed to hit 5 times, its effective base power is 125. Pin missile has better power and accuracy than megahorn.

Arm thrust or close combat?
Close combat has 120 base power, while arm thrust has 15 base power. They're both 100% accurate. Because arm thrust is guaranteed to hit 5 times, its effective base power is 75, which is still weaker than close combat. Use close combat.

Both sets have rock blast, so you'll use rock blast no matter which one you choose.

Fury attack or chip away?
Chip away has 70 base power and 100% accuracy. Fury attack has 15 base power and 85% accuracy. Because fury attack is guaranteed to hit 5 times, its effective base power is 75. Fury attack is a little bit stronger than chip away, but a lot less accurate. The chance that you'll miss with fury attack outweighs the chance that you'll miss a KO with chip away, so chip away is better than fury attack.
Of course, both of these moves are pretty weak and aren't super effective against anything, so you're better off using earthquake in this move slot. At least earthquake lets you hit poison Pokemon, as well as the occasional steel type that isn't weak to fighting, pretty hard.

In conclusion, your best bet is to use pin missile, close combat, rock blast, and earthquake.

By the way, you should use the EV spread 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe adamant, which lets you outspeed Breloom and Cresselia.

Answer 2

Well, since both Heracross are going to mega evolve, the abilities do not matter - as well as the decision based on nature and EV spread (since their the same). So, the choice is basically on your moves.

Both Heracross has Rock Blast, so your choice is either "Pin Missile, Arm Thrust, and Fury Attack" vs. "Megahorn, Close Combat, and Chip Away".

To start with the bug-type move, a Skill-Linked Pin Missile is much better than Megahorn. Since Skill link always ensures the maximum amount of hits, therefore Pin Missile will hit with powers 25, 50, 75, 100, then 125, which is much more valuable than Megahorn with base 120 (especially since it only has base 85 accuracy).

Between the Normal and Fighting moves, it's the same effect. The cumulative power with the benefit of skill link is much more valuable than a single-weaker attack move.

Furthermore, in a skill-link move, each move is treated separately, so each move has a probability of a critical hit, with a greater chance at even more damage. Also, it's an effective method to Pokemon with Sturdy or a Focus Sash. The only downside to the skill-linked move set is against Pokemon with abilities such as Static or Iron Barbs.

So overall, I think the Heracross with the skill-link move set would be much more ideal for competitive battling.

Your Choice! Hope I helped! :)

Comments

Okay, thanks Blaze.

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How is arm thrust more powerful than close combat?

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Close Combat lowers Defense and Special Defense. Arm Thrust does not.

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Arm Thrust can have cumulative base power of 225 with skill-link vs. Close Combat's 120 base power. Furthermore, as Shady Sceptile mentioned, close combat has hindering effects on Heracross

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No, Arm Thrust is far weaker than Close Combat. It has 15 base power and caps out at 75 with a fifth hit. Not sure how you ended up with 225.

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@Fizz, Arm Thrust + Skill live leads to 15+30+45+60+75 = 225 cumulative base power

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Each hit is 15 base power, so it's 15+15+15+15+15=75.

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Is that how it works? Ok, I never knew that